The last day of the conference was just as exciting as the first two. I was a little out of energy and definitely tired, but it was a great day of more of the same: fellowship. This community of believers truly is where I belong. It’s nice not having to explain the sons of God of Genesis 6 or the Nephilim every time you have a conversation with someone. It was also really cool to sit there and wax theological with Rob Skiba.
One major point of contention that was a theme over meals over the weekend was the rapture debate. I believe I mentioned it in an earlier post from Branson, but essentially, we were surrounded by Pre-Trib rapture folks. In fact, Dave Lehman who we were traveling with suggested that no one would take anyone who believes otherwise seriously in the scholastic world. But there are a few things that must be considered in light of all the new research that is happening. Rob Skiba and I were discussing the problem with the Pre-Trib view when studying all the verses that supposedly support it. He brought up the fact that he believes the book of Revelation was a mirror image of what we find in Exodus. I have to do more study on it, but what I hope to do is really dig into these topics. One thing I pointed out is the problem with the Pre-trib view was that they suggest Matthew 24 is strictly for the Jews, and then proceed to use Matthew 24:36 which talks about no one knowing the day or the hour, for the church! This is a blatant contradiction. In fact, Rob spoke about how the fall feast is also called, “the day no one knows the day or the hour” which seems to indicate, that we DO and SHOULD be able to figure out the season for the Lord’s return and us being caught up to be with Him.
The final part of the evening was with Rob and his wife Sheila, Doug, Dave, and myself having dinner over at the Lone Star across the street. It’s become a tradition just two years in. And what’s even funnier was that we sat in at the exact same table in the exact same seats! Coincidence? I would suggest God’s providence. In any case, we had a wonderful meal and a great conversation that really wrapped up the weekend.
I was really sad to leave Branson, but I also missed my wife and daughter at home, so it was nice to finally come home to them. But what conferences like these leave me with is a great sense and enthusiasm to research, research, research! There are so many things I want to learn about this upcoming year. First is about the the fall feasts and the true Israelite celebrations that we as the church body should still be practicing. As many know, the American institution of church has become very pagan and secularized. I think it’s time the church really digs into the topic and find out exactly what the Bible says, not what tradition says. Second, is dig into more about the Nephilim, but in context to traditional views of the rapture and end times eschatology. Guys like LA Marzulli, Rob Skiba, Douglas Hamp, Peter Goodgame, Tom Horn and many others have laid the foundation about Genesis 6 and the Nephilim. Now, I feel it on my heart to take the next step and find out how these elements really apply to the modern Christian dogma that the church is indoctrinated with currently. I will certainly post some much needed in depth articles as time goes on here on the Face Like The Sun blog. All in all, it was a great time and I recommend everyone to come out next year and join in on the fun. Blessings to you all.
[Hi Face...Catch this item - saw it on the web.]
PRETRIB RAPTURE SECRETS
How can the “rapture” be “imminent”? Acts 3:21 says that Jesus “must” stay in heaven (He’s now there with the Father) “until the times of restitution of all things” which includes, says Scofield, “the restoration of the theocracy under David’s Son” which obviously can’t begin before or during Antichrist’s reign. (“The Rapture Question,” by the long time No. 1 pretrib authority John Walvoord, didn’t dare to even list, in its scripture index, the too-hot-to-handle Acts 3:21!) Since Jesus can’t even leave heaven before the tribulation ends (Acts 2:34,35 echo this), the rapture therefore can’t take place before the end of the trib! (The same Acts verses were also too hot for John Darby – the so-called “father of dispensationalism” – to list in the scripture index in his “Letters”!)
Paul explains the “times and the seasons” (I Thess. 5:1) of the catching up (I Thess. 4:17) as the “day of the Lord” (5:2) which FOLLOWS the posttrib sun/moon darkening (Matt. 24:29; Acts 2:20) WHEN “sudden destruction” (5:3) of the wicked occurs! The “rest” for “all them that believe” is tied to such destruction in II Thess. 1:6-10! (If the wicked are destroyed before or during the trib, who’d be left alive to serve the Antichrist?) Paul also ties the change-into-immortality “rapture” (I Cor. 15:52) to the posttrib end of “death” (15:54). (Will death be ended before or during the trib? Of course not! And vs. 54 is also tied to Isa. 25:8 which is Israel’s posttrib resurrection!)
Many are unaware that before 1830 all Christians had always viewed I Thess. 4’s “catching up” as an integral part of the final second coming to earth. In 1830 this “rapture” was stretched forward and turned into a separate coming of Christ. To further strengthen their novel view, which the mass of evangelical scholars rejected throughout the 1800s, pretrib teachers in the early 1900s began to stretch forward the “day of the Lord” (what Darby and Scofield never dared to do) and hook it up with their already-stretched-forward “rapture.” Many leading evangelical scholars still weren’t convinced of pretrib, so pretrib teachers then began teaching that the “falling away” of II Thess. 2:3 is really a pretrib rapture (the same as saying that the “rapture” in 2:3 must happen before the “rapture” ["gathering"] in 2:1 can happen – the height of desperation!).
Other Google articles on the 182-year-old pretrib rapture view include “Pretrib Rapture Politics,” “Pretrib Rapture Scholar Wannabes,” “Famous Rapture Watchers,” “Pretrib Rapture Diehards,” “X-Raying Margaret,” “Edward Irving is Unnerving,” “Thomas Ice (Bloopers),” “Walvoord Melts Ice,” “Wily Jeffrey,” “The Rapture Index (Mad Theology),” “America’s Pretrib Rapture Traffickers,” “Roots of (Warlike) Christian Zionism,” “Scholars Weigh My Research,” “Pretrib Hypocrisy,” “Appendix F: Thou Shalt Not Steal,” “Thieves’ Marketing,” “Pretrib Rapture Secrecy,” “Deceiving and Being Deceived,” “Pretrib Rapture Dishonesty,” and “Christ’s return is NOT imminent!” – all by the author of the bestselling book “The Rapture Plot” (see Armageddon Books).
Hey Lennie,
Thanks for the paste. I’ve seen most of these arguments here and they are certainly a very good refutation of the pre-trib position. I’ve found that when bringing these things up with folks who are dogmatically pre-trib, they wiggle their ways out of them by suggesting something that’s not there, or something out of left field. For example, when I bring up Acts 3:21, they say that the rapture and the return of Jesus are two separate events, and that Jesus doesn’t perform the rapture of the church, God the Father does. This without any proof text. It’s very obvious that the pre-trib position is flawed. Thanks for the comment.
Gonz